SESSION VI 281 ROOT: Yes, consequently Russia seems to be more approachable. DUNHAM: Another commentary on the general attitude right now is that [ was invited by Senator Clark, a member of a group on the Hill, Peace Through Law I think they call themselves, to view and to comment and to ask questions, first for the Senate members and then for the House members, on a movie entitled ''War Games." The BBC at one time was not allowed to show it on BBC but it did go the rounds; and it was interesting. Only one other Senator showed up and practically no Congressmen showed up. It was almost exclu- sively staff of both groups. in the afternoon, like that. It was at a favorable time; it was late There were no interruptions for voting or anything But this shows the lack of interest, DUNHAM: They were preoccupied with other matters. FREMONT-SMITH: I had a feeling as you were talking that perhaps something had happened to us paychosocially in this respect. SPEAR: I think cleo that the tone from the White House has something to do with it. In the early years of the Kenedy Administration there evolved quite clearly the attitude that nuclear war simply must not be permitted to happen; that it is unthinkable, by the outcome of the Cuban missile crisis. This was supported I think this has been an important thing which has been reflected, as far as I can see fro.: the outside, in program emphasis within civil defense, [ haven't been close to it, but lately there certainly has not been much impact of the fallout shelter prograrn on the public. Kennedy gave this 2 great impetus and then very quickly regretted having Gone so, [ believe. This is bound to be reflected in the public attitude. FREMONT-SMITH: It seems to me that there's a legitimate conflict here. On the one hand, a strong point can be made for the fact that civil defense, appropriate civil defense, would save a great many lives; on the other hand, one can also make a atrong case that any civil defense, appropriate or otherwise, may increase the danger of a war because people will feel that they don't have to avoid it be- cause they have civil defense. : It seerns to me that these two positions are somewhat in conflict ina way. One might say if there's going to have to be a war, of course, we want civil defense; on the other hand, if a war is going to be so bad that it really needs to be prevented, and if not aaving