SESSION Iv ROOT: 229 Are you, Dr. Donaldson, referring to irradiated particu- late fallout matter in the water which goes into the food chain and Dr. Wolfe referring to direct radiation? WOLFE: I'm talking about the radiation that gets there, whether it's from fallout or any other source. ROOT: Buta high burst wouldn't be so damaging would it? wouldn't be anything to come down. , WOLFE: I don't think it would. here But this illustrates a question that has been put to the Division by the Joint Committee, They want to know, since we're conducting radiation studies at Oak Ridge and at Brookhaven, why we have to do them at the test site, for example. And the problem, [I think, is answered in part here with the Rongelap study, that neither Oak Ridge ror Brookhaven nor Argonne nor any- body else could have predicted accurately, nor could have discovered, Mos You've got I don't know how I can put it into language for you, and I don't know whether we could put it on paper for the Joint Committee, Chuck. We've gota different environment; it involves different biota and different meteorology and different climates ard different relationships altogether, That is just the way ecology is. It involves geography. TAYLOR: Aren't there two very significant differences, at lcast, between the exposures at Bikini and Hiroshima and what you do at Oak Ridge and at Brookhaven? That is, the close-in dose rate phenomena are not producible ona large scale. You can't irradiate a group of trees ina very short time. WOLFE: We do have a cesium source ina forest at Brookhaven, TAYLOR: Yes, but some of the irradiations are in milliseconds, as I understand it. The dose rate phenomena... UPTON: One can tend to simulate this with a fast burst reactor. TAYLOR: Are these ecological studies? re OM me Geni ie seated ea a atMRiean Ee ee the thyroid difficulties that Bob Conard has reported on. to go where the action is, UPTON: Yes. From a tower,