148 DASA 2019-2 DUNHAM: There were a couple of heroic efforts. One was to actually sample with rockets to find out what was coming down into the air shortly alter the explosions, but the rockets all failed or something went wrong. There was also quite a lot of effort to collect stuff on barges and things. The NRDL was involved in this. EISENBUD: When you say "heroic", what people were trying ta do was slipthings in. Then you remember the way we laid 400 rafts and couldn't find them afterwards. But this was all stuff that was done in a hurry trying to fit our requirements into a achedule that was already laid down and couldn't be changed. DUNHAM: One of the big problems was simply the old business of trying to guess where the wind is going to he if you're talking about surface collecting, and they tried to get around that by a whole program of rockets. Dr. Alvin Graves of the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory and Dr. Willard Libby, then one of the AEC Commissioners, were promoting this and it just fizzied. [I don't know what happened to the rockets, but they never did get much data.,. TAYLOR: I think the reason that the experiment just is not done is there's no place te doit. If what one wants is to tire a few megatons on the surface of the dry land somewhere where there isn't a lot of water involved, the question is where do you do it? BUSTAD: You can do it in China! [Leuchter] EISENBUD: portant point. AYRES: Granted. And, of course, this is an extremely im- What is it that we don't know? EISENBUD: Would you want to set national policy based ona single set of observations which yielded data which at best were just scavenged? AYRES: Which types of data ace you referring to specifically? There's much more than one set of data on this. TAYLOR: Not a megaton. AYRES: There's a lot of kiloton data that's very different and some megaton data (Reference 34).