52 DASA 2039-2 FREMONT-SMITH: Isn't there a lesson for the whele purpose and goal of these series of conferences in this discussion thet's taking place this morning? Human nature is not going to change that fast and we're going to have a variety of conflicts and atzitudes, and hawks and doves, with respect toa, b, c, andd, ia preparation for the possibility of atomic war. Also, if there ever is 4 nuclear war, there will be this same kine of confusion and rea::tion all over the world. So it seems to me that this aspect of huraan nature, which we're probably going to have to face in one way or another as long as there's human nature around, is one of the certral lessons for this whole business, If we're going to get anythin: out of this, part of it is going to come by the fact that human ature is this way and that there are conflicts in authority, the highest ievel of authority. You're going to get denial of facts, as Jack brougy) out; clearly evident facts will be denied up ind down and proved not .o be so by other authority, I attended a conference that the Civil efense put on in which the problem faced by the group in this 3-das meeting was that a bomb has been dropped, This was the assumption, and we were to focus attention on two counties in northern New York State bordering onthe of the Great Lakes. According to the assumption, the wind has blown the fallout over these counties and the question is what do you do? Well, the report of this meeting war never published, not, I think, so much because it was classified, bu’. because it was unbearable to have a group of intelligent people about as confused as we were. We ended up with a terrible wrangle as to vho was to milk the cows! [Laughter] So, I think that among the lessons is that there's a lack of a logical approach to the realities of the problem that can be counted upon no matter where we stand. I would throw in one little touch, and that is that we are all aware of the .act that the weather every once ina while turns out differently from what is predicted, LANGHAM: I would like to refer back again to the conflict of interest on the part of sci-:ntists trying to work together. Each man's ego is tied up with his ‘ob, FREMONT-SMITH: You are right. ences are bringing this out every day. Our multi-disciplined confer- LANGHAM: Ihave a rather amusing story that illustrates this. | don't know whether lL ever told Dr. Warren, but he kept getting messages from the co.:onel on Eniwetok who was in Charge of putting the droned B-17s8 through the clouds at Bikini.