144 TH SHORTER-TERM BIOLOGICAL HAZARDS OF A FALLOUT FIELD made not from the point of view of a biologist or physicist, but someone who has been exposed to Army operational requirements concepts, and thinking over the past few years in the field of radiological defensein general. My feeling is that many of the practical problems of radiological defense of which beta is one can be resolved most successfully by a ‘joint attack on the problem by research people and the operational people with the research people providing the basic information, Where the operational people provide their capabilities and limitations, which serve in many cases as a framework in which part of the research and development effort at least should be directed to provide solutions to these very simple problems. ‘This is no more apparentthanin the ease of beta hazard. I think if we assume for the momentthatas a result of the studies that Col. Brennan recommended as to the beta hazard, let us assume that they proceed to the point where they indicate that in a fair number of tactical or practical situations in the field, there will be a beta hazard relative to the gamma hazard. The very real operational problem then comes to the fore is, do you have to assess this hazard in the field, and if you do, how do you go about doing it? There are two schools of thought on this particular problem. One says that you have to have beta detection capability or measuring capabilityin the field, and the other school says the way to approach this thing is to do some research and development based on simplified geometry situations, and by means of gamma measurements plus factors based on field geometry, you can come up with a fairly decent estimate of whatthe beta hazard will be in these various situations. The question as to which approach should be taken appears to be dictated at the present momentby operational limitations, rather than technical limitations, If you can assume for the moment that you do have radiological equipment which can give you information by means of a beta window reading, or what have you,itstill brings up the point of how manyof these instruments will be required to give you a DISCUSSION ON TOPIC IV meaningful reading. The Army can only support so manyof these instruments, and so many different types to do a given survey job. At the present time their conceptis that two gamma measuring instruments per company limitations must be thrown into the picture fairly early in the gameso it indicates the di- rection in which the research and development effort might be more profitably directed. Col. Brennan. Thank you. That was very will give them an indication of the contours in the company area. T wonder how many in- illuminating. ability to do the same thing in view of the fact as we used to think. The answers to the problems that Mr. Lindwarm poses certainly T don’t know. J suspect from an efficiency point of struments it would take of a beta detecting that you have such markedvariations. In the beta hazard part of this thing, there is so much variation of the beta dose within a given area, if you are going to get a meaningful survey, it Certainly no one can say in view of the Marshallese and the other data are available that there is no such thing as a betahazard seems to me you would have to take an awful lot of instrumentation to do it. If you were view, the Army and the Armed Forces and the Civil Defense people should emphasize prophylexis with regard to beta rays. The Marshallese tend to maximize this information for of beta hazard, the point contact which results from personnel contamination, again the question comes if you take a simple company with a hot climate where theyperspire and so forth. One can look at this and realize the undesirability and seriousness of it, and perhaps take going to use beta detection for the other type 250 men distributed in a forward area, how do you go about monitoring every individual, finding out whether he is contaminated, and to whatlevel? There are other practical limitations, and that is the availability of personnel to do the monitoring. The present concept in the Army is that monitoring will be taught as part of the basic soldierly skill. It will be taught to enlisted men in basic training. It is not simple now-a-days to get enlisted men to do ordinary simple gamma measuring in the field. The question of getting meaningful beta readings I think is recognized even among people who know what they are doing as a quite difficult thing. Just how to interpret an instrument reading with the window closed and open takes quite a bit of interpreting. Then thelast consideration as far as the prac- tical limitation is concernedis that we know that the instrument can do rugged work. We know even in the hands of technical people these windows have « habit of being punctured. If you distribute these types of instruments to personnel in the field, you stand a very good chance of capability mentation I think winding up with no beta detection but without any gamma instruas well. certain operational capabilities and us by wearing few clothing, living out of doors, care of it by enforcing simple measures, keep your sleeves down, your helmet on, don’t go in contaminated areas, and so forth. The point contact can largely he avoided for atleast military personnel by simplybattlefield hygiene measures. The external beta com- ponent, whether this has to be allowed for or routinely measured or measured once in a while, I think it is impossible to say at the present time without more experimental data, and a good deal more developmentof doctrine and philosophy. I think the beta problem is going to be with us militarily and civilianwise for quite some time. : There are many, many industrial hazard situations in which the beta hazard has likewise been sort of shoved in the background, and not solved, because it was heard to approach. There are many instances in which you have insoluble particles in the air, many industrial hazards that are regarded as gaseous and liquid, which are really not. If the truth were known theyare particulate and give the point contact for a beta hazardif theyare inhaled. Does anyone have any further comment? Mr. Greene (FCDA). For some time we havefelt that there was a need for making beta Measurements, especially for certain types of civil defense operations. The most. obvious 145 that I can think of would be reseue workers who are working in debris and who would have their faces and hands close to the sources of radiation, It would certainly be important for them to know whether they are working in an area that actually has the contamination in the debris where they are working or whether the main source of radiation is from the outside, From that standpoint we have felt that there is a requirement for the measurement—and I use the term rather loosely—of beta radiation and we have incorporated that into our specifications. We actually have an instrument that is now beginning to come off the production line which measures beta. The problem of fragility is certainly a serious one. We therefore have not attempted to hava a beta window as thin as the 7 milligrams per square centimeter that one might ideally want. What we have doneis used a thicker window, and from work in Nevada, and work with Dr. Failla, we believe we can get a portion of the betaradiation whichis relatively constant with time and from that portion with calibration curve get someideaof the total beta radiation dose. Mr. Linpwarm. This fight has been going on for so many years that it is funny. I question the requirement why you have to knowyou are operating in a contaminated area. You have a gamma reading to tell you that. You mean if voufind beta, you will take gloves off or if there is none, you will take them off. Mr. Greene. You are working with the You ought to know more Chemieal Corps. about it than anybody else. I was talking aboutyourface and hands. Tf youare working in rubble, you are close to the debris and your face is close to it. Mr. Linpwarm. I doubt that there would be any requirement at any time if you are doing emergency rescue work to go in with a gas mask for the simple purpose of protecting your face. As soon as you got out you would wash your hands andface. Col. Brennan. Is the gas mask to protect: from inhalation? Mr. Greene. I was thinking of a mask to