people who have studied the radiation injury to people over all of the history of our known exposure to radiation. The number that has been agreed to in our deliberation is 8/10 or slightly lower than the maximum prescribed in that guide. “McAfee: What does it mean to me then if you are under the line? That any damage you sustain is about the same as an ordinary fellow walking down the street? Gudiksen: Let me give a little bit of a history and show how the numbers came about in a very general. form. The International Commission on Radiation Protection was actually started way back in around 1928, I think, to assess the hazards due to X-rays and radium. They studied the data that was available on that problem. Than the Commission studied whatever data became available over the years. It wasn't until the mid-fifties when nuclear power began to be talked about and so on. A great deal of research was funded by the government to study the biological effects of radiation on man and today we have a very large body of radiation at high dose levels and regarding the uptake of radionuclides in the body and so on. There are studies on mice, dogs, and so on. Granted we have to extrapolate all this data to man but this international body of experts looked at all this data and they looked at the effects of radiation. It is very important that we work within the framework of the lowest practicable dose. We don't expose people to any more than alsolutely necessary. Any amount of radiation is harmful. DeBrum: And if people stay at Bikini without eating any local food, by the fact that they live there on the islands for 30 years --- what dose can they be expected to be recorded at? Gudiksen: DeBrum: Ray; Yes. External dose? Gudiksen: DeBrum: Ray: From just living there? External dose is expected to be 4 rem in 30 years - 5 is the guideline. So 1 point below the guideline. 68/10 of the guideline. McAfee: Gudiksen: What does say, the average American in the street get? 2.4 or something on that order. It varies. McAtee: Do you know enough about the genetic effects to have confidence in that area? You know you hear some horror stories. Gudiksen: O.K. as a matter of fact if you ex:ose people to 3 rem in 30 years and that's the guideline, there could be gene:ic damage and that means some damage in the offspring and that damage could reflect in a number of ways: Mental preblems, physical problems, what have you, but some sort of defect. Ray: Change rather. -] O-